Baptist Seminary President Says Women Shouldn't Teach Men

Regarding this story, if you take note on Wade Burleson's blog comments following the piece about the lecture I gave, I note that I never stated that Vision Forum forbids all birth control formally. (It is noted in one of the first few comments in response to the blog post.) I never said that as the video of the lecture reveals. It is the formal position of Vision Forum that "birth control" is strongly prohibited, though in all actuality, birth control may be prohibited through social pressure and the "unwritten rules" of the group.

Goodness...

Let me correct that... It is the formal position of Vision Forum that birth control is "strongly discouraged," not formally prohibited. I stated that in error in my previous comment here.

Per the "unwritten rules" that are conveyed through social pressure and social mentoring in spiritually abusive groups, quite often the formally stated position of a group may not match what is actually practiced and believed by the group. The VF formal position on contraception can be found at www.VisionForumMinistries.org under the issues section in their many articles on the subject.

So effectively and functionally, it may actually be true that Vision Forum forbids birth control, but they have a degree of plausible deniability that this is not the case. Such is the modus operandi with many other of Vision Forum's beliefs, conveyed through vague inference and unstated assumption.

We don't attend an SBC church. However, my SS teacher has a daughter who had to leave the SBC because they wouldn't allow her to be ordained to minister to the sick as a hospital chaplain. She was ordained by another denomination Neither my SS teacher nor I are egalitarian, but we are in disagreement with the SBC on this issue.

I also think what happened to Dr. Klouda was abominable, if indeed it is the truth that she was assured her job was secure, only to be forced out later on. I also disagree that teaching men another language constitutes a violation of what Paul taught about the gathered worship in I Timothy chapter 2. It appears the conclusion of the SBC is a woman cannot teach a man ANYTHING, EVER, or she is in violation of the Word of God.

Regarding this fracas over Cindy Kunsman's talk, Cindy has emailed me some of the lengthy correspondence she had with EMNR prior to her speech, and it is clear that she was quite candid about what she was going to present, as well as demonstrating a willingness to refine her speech or leave items out if they so directed her to do that. I agree with Wade Burleson -- if they disagreed with what she said, then let them refute her claims, instead of these kinds of heavy-handed tactics.

I was alarmed to read today the following quote by Patterson. In the link below there is a link to the mp3 file where he can be heard expanding on his advice to women in situations of domestic violence. It appears that he counsels women to stay with their husbands if there is physical abuse, but it isn't to the point where, I think the word he used was, "serious." Women are only counseled to leave the situation if it is serious enough, and I don't know what that line would be, according to Patterson. It would appear that to Patterson, black eyes do not qualify as "serious." Why in the world it would be proper to call the police on anyone else for black eyes, but only to pray for a husband who does the same thing to his wife, is beyond me. But see for yourselves:

http://sbcoutpost.com/2008/02/25/defendant-paige-patterson-to-be-deposed-today/

"I had a woman who was in a church that I served, and she was being subject to some abuse, and I told her, I said, “All right, what I want you to do is, every evening I want you to get down by your bed just as he goes to sleep, get down by the bed, and when you think he’s just about asleep, you just pray and ask God to intervene, not out loud, quietly,” but I said, “You just pray there.” And I said, “Get ready because he may get a little more violent, you know, when he discovers this.” And sure enough, he did. She came to church one morning with both eyes black. And she was angry at me and at God and the world, for that matter. And she said, “I hope you’re happy.” And I said, “Yes ma’am, I am.” And I said, “I’m sorry about that, but I’m very happy.”

And what she didn’t know when we sat down in church that morning was that her husband had come in and was standing at the back, first time he ever came. And when I gave the invitation that morning, he was the first one down to the front. And his heart was broken, he said, “My wife’s praying for me, and I can’t believe what I did to her.” And he said, “Do you think God can forgive somebody like me?” And he’s a great husband today. And it all came about because she sought God on a regular basis. And remember, when nobody else can help, God can.

And in the meantime, you have to do what you can at home to be submissive in every way that you can and to elevate him. Obviously, if he’s doing that kind of thing he’s got some very deep spiritual problems in his life and you have to pray that God brings into the intersection of his life those people and those events that need to come into his life to arrest him and bring him to his knees."